Interview with Caitlin McEwan

With conversations around online misogyny, the manosphere and male radicalisation becoming increasingly prominent, playwright Caitlin explores these issues through an unexpected and darkly comic lens in Two Little Pigs. Returning to the Edinburgh Fringe after her acclaimed debut Bible John, Caitlin's provocative new two-hander examines hypermasculinity, loneliness and the complexities of compassion through the unlikely relationship between a radicalised young man and an outspoken pet pig. Ahead of the show's Fringe run, I spoke to Caitlin about writing flawed characters with empathy, tackling difficult subjects through humour, and why theatre is the perfect place to challenge deeply held beliefs.

What first sparked the idea for Two Little Pigs?

The initial idea came from an article I read years ago. It was about the development of new technology that would make it possible for people to have an animal like a pig as a pet, but also harvest its cells for meat. I was so intrigued by that sense of duality and what it might do to human relationships with animals, especially considering that many people get pets for companionship and can often feel closer to those animals than they do to other humans. The character of Mark, who gets a pet pig because he’s just been dumped, started to take shape, and the final piece of the puzzle was Pig being able to talk, and having a curiosity about the human world and feminist politics in particular. I thought that framework would be an interesting way to dig into the relationship between humans and animals, as well as exploring some thoughts I’d been having about gender.

Why did you choose a pig as the central character to challenge Mark's beliefs?

I knew it had to be an animal because Mark wouldn’t listen to a woman, especially at the beginning of the play - he’s been hurt by too many of them, and he’s hardened himself to their viewpoints. But I also think a pig specifically has lots of interesting and prescient overtones: it’s used as a misogynistic insult, and Mark could be labelled a male ‘chauvinist pig’ by some audience members.

How did you find the balance between comedy and serious discussion?

It was really important to me that the play was funny - mostly because I always gravitate towards humour in my writing, and in the things I like to watch. I think paradoxically it helps you make a serious point more effectively. The play uses an absurd, comic set-up to discuss serious issues, so that sense of light and dark was there at the outset. I just had to make sure it never became too silly or sombre!

You immersed yourself in online manosphere communities while researching. What surprised you most?

I don’t think I was shocked by the extremity of the content - these beliefs aren’t new, they’re just mainstream again. I was actually surprised by how shocked people I knew were when confronted with the scope and extremity of some of these views, but I suppose we all live in echo chambers thanks to our algorithms. Actually, what shocked me most was how complicit social media companies are in fanning the flames, as well as the fact that they’re allowed to get away with it on a global scale.

Why was it important to write Mark with compassion rather than portraying him simply as a villain?

I think if he was an irredeemable villain it would be a terrible play! There would be very little investment from the audience, because no one would believe he was capable of changing. I also think it would be really irresponsible for me to write a character who has been seduced by extreme views online, who is pure evil. It’s my job to empathise with him, and encourage the audience to do that too.

Do you think society is getting better at talking about young men's mental health, or are we still missing something?

I think we’re pretty terrible about talking about mental health full stop. I think we need a drastic cultural shift so that people feel comfortable and safe being vulnerable, and don’t worry that they’re going to be met with judgment. I don’t think I’ve got any answers, but I suppose it starts with individuals trying to be more understanding to those around them, and offering young people outlets that aren’t on their phones.

How do you hope audiences respond to the play?

I hope it encourages empathy and understanding, and starts some discussion - the play is about conversation, communication and the value of considering something from all sides, so if that happens in the bar after the show, I’d be very happy!

Your Fringe debut Bible John was hugely successful. How has your writing evolved since then?

I was really lucky to be developing projects for theatre and TV over lockdown, as well as being part of writing groups with the Royal Court and HighTide, so I feel like I spent that time getting an amazing education into how plays and scripts work, and started challenging myself to make my writing and the concepts behind my stories much clearer and bolder. But then I spent three years training as an actor at drama school, and writing really fell away during that time, so writing this play I felt extremely rusty!

Why do you think humour can be such an effective way of tackling uncomfortable subjects?

I think it disarms an audience; they’re more likely to listen if they’re entertained. I hate to feel lectured at, in the theatre or anywhere else, so humour helps sweeten the pill a little. But also, I think there’s no situation in life that is completely devoid of humour, however dark it might be. So to not include a few jokes along the way doesn’t feel reflective of humanity.

Did writing Two Little Pigs change any of your own opinions or assumptions?

I don’t think it changed my opinion of a character like Mark - I think I would always look at someone like him in real life and assume he was probably in a lot of pain. In the course of writing the play I have become way more sympathetic to him, though. But the weirdest change is that I’m not really an animal person (I’m allergic to loads of them, so I’ve never had any pets), but I now find myself completely besotted by them. Obviously, pigs are my favourite, but I’m biased.

What has been the biggest challenge in bringing such an unusual concept to the stage?

We’re actually just about to go into rehearsal as I write this, so we’ve been having lots of meetings with our amazing creative team. We’re talking about costume and staging, and I’m thinking about how I’ll portray the physicality of Pig, but until we’re in the rehearsal room we won’t know what works and doesn’t, which is daunting but really exciting. We have some incredible designers and creatives bringing their imaginative responses to this thing I’ve created, so I’m excited to see what the final product will look like!

If audiences could take away one message from Two Little Pigs, what would you want it to be?

I hope people see the value of viewing something as multiple things. Mark struggles throughout the play to see Pig as a food source but also a companion, but if he is able to, it might completely liberate him. Similarly, I think a lot of us hold quite strict views and beliefs that, if we cracked into them, might make us reconsider things for the better, so I hope it opens some doors or sheds some light for audience members into various aspects of their lives.

Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me, Caitlin. Two Little Pigs will be performed at 7:45pm at Pleasance Courtyard from 5th – 30th August.

For more details please visit:

https://www.pleasance.co.uk/event/two-little-pigs