Interview with Sue Buckmaster

Ahead of Return To The Forest I caught up with Sue to give a deeper dive into the themes of the production and what people can expect from this production.

How did your previous collaboration on The Global Playground influence this new production?

The Global Playground was Theatre-Rites' first collaboration with Gregory Magoma and was produced by Manchester International Festival during Covid, rehearsed in a socially distant way. As you can imagine, it was both wonderful to be back in the creative space but the circumstances limited our ability to truly play together.

We knew that our creative processes and the connection between puppetry and dance was rich rich and fertile tile ground and we felt there was a genuine sense of unfinished creative business. Luckily others agreed and with the support of Factory International and Sadler's Wells we embarked on new research - this time looking at folk customs, fairytales, precious objects and masquerade from across the world.

How does puppetry enable storytelling in ways that live actors alone cannot?

In many successful recent productions puppetry has enabled us to play with the human at different scales (the BFG at the RSC, or popular walkabout giant puppet) or represent animals on stage (War Horse or the Herds) More recently we have seen an interest in puppetry helping us imagine an 'other' world - magical figures which hold symbolic meaning (My Neighbour Totorro or His Dark Materials).

The puppetry for Return to the Forest is inspired by Masquerade practice from around the world, whether that be the various mask figures that use an Ishoba stick in different countries, the elaborate masks of West African traditions, the Mas celebrations of the Caribbean, to the many versions of Krampus around Europe and the folk dances and hobby horses of the UK. The essential element of Masquerade is its ability to make the wearer invisible. Many would say it is so that the wearer can disappear and take on a spirit of something bigger than themselves and perform with that creative energy for the benefit of the well-being of the community it is celebrated within.

In this show a number of artists, from all over the world, have shared the objects and masquerade practice which they have encountered. As a team, we have allowed these references to give birth to some new contemporary masquerade figures who will hopefully have their own exciting and maybe healing impact on our audiences.

How has the development process been so far, and have there been any challenges so far?

Like all Theatre-Rites projects Return to the Forest is built on a foundation of extensive research. In 2024 we planned a week of r&d and I asked

Gregory to bring an object with him as a starting point. He brought an Ishoba. a healing stick from South Africa, made by his brother who is a Healer. It was by playing with this object and listening to its ancestral wisdom and physical origin that certain creative ideas began to emerge. I also asked Visual Artist Bunmi Agusto to introduce an object to Gregory and me and she helped us reimagine a contemporary mask inspired by her Yorubic culture in Nigeria; a Gelede Mask. This inspired further ideas for dance and puppetry.

As a team, we were already aware of the challenges associated with being inspired by such ancestral objects and the on-going important post-colonial debates about ownership and representation. We sought out how to be respectful in our process. It was at that point when Bunmi said to me ' of course the traditional masks are just dead objects when hung in a museum' removed from their original purpose. So, in the research weeks we asked the objects where they would rather be, or where thev once thrived. Both the Ishoba and the Gelede took us back to the Forest. To nature. natun

Thus, the rough structure of the performance, starting in a museum, was born and we named it 'Return to the Forest'.

Another creative challenge has been geography. Whilst it has been wonderful to connect with practitioners from around the world through online meetings, providing a necessary connection, nothing beats being in the same space. We arranged a second week of r&d in March 2025 and a year later we're back together for rehearsals which is wonderful.

What does interactivity mean in this production - and how do you want audiences to engage?

This is an immersive, promenade production with a light sprinkling of interactivity. We would argue that all theatre is interactive as the audience is never passive.

In Return to the Forest we are animating 5 precious objects which start in a museum and, through dance and puppetry, come alive to tell us their stories. This is not a story in words, but a narrative which speaks the visual and physical language of dance and puppetry, suitable for adults and children over 8. Audiences will be transported from a museum space to an enchanted forest, then into the magical world of tangly roots, re-emerging into the joys of a masquerade celebration of all things important - marking the importance of knowing one's roots, nurturing potential growth and sustaining connections.

As Gregory says 'this format allows the audience to become part of of the movement and changing spaces rather than witnesses to it. When we remove fixed seating, we also remove the hierarchy of who performs and who observes. The space becomes porous, alive. The audience is invited to navigate, to choose where to look, what to follow, what to feel. That is closer to how memory actually works - fragmented, embodied, constantly shifting. You don't sit and watch memory; you move through it. This format allows us to activate that sense of discovery and intimacy'.

For children and adults alike, what themes do you hope resonate most?

Previously Theatre-Rites have created productions exploring Neuroscience, Economics, Death, the Refugee experience and Coal Mining, to name a few. As an Artist I wish to use my Art as a way of expanding my own research interests, some of which, on first glance, do not appear very child-friendly. However, all these topics can have a huge impact on children, and we need to give them a chance to ponder on their own developing views. I believe there is a way to present these themes to children which is appropriate, and may I dare say, even more exciting than some of the didactic work created for adults.

Many people think we must sort out our adult opinions before we can present them to children. However, currently adults don't always have the answer, and I feel it is wise to present food for thought which can be shared by all ages. I remember for Bank On It, our site-specific show for the Barbican, the adults who came with their children arrived feeling angry in the light of the recent Economic Crisis. They left the show feeling moved and inspired by the way the children engaged with thoughts around shared resources. The Welcoming Party, for Manchester International Festival, inspired wonderful conversations around how we should consider what home looks like and how we can provide safety for each other. Experiencing theatre with adults and children is really very special.

In Return to the Forest we are being inspired by the artistic discussions adults are having about post-colonial ownership of museum objects and the place of ancestral wisdom in light of climate change and an ever-increasing digital age. Without being too didactic, Theatre-Rites, using a more abstract and symbolic visual language wishes to make this show an imaginative opportunity for the young and old to consider these subjects in a way appropriate to them.

Can you tell us about how the collaborative process has been?

In most theatre processes you follow a script, often written by one person. In most Dance processes you are led by a particular dance form, with set rules held in the dancers trained body. For Theatre-Rites, you follow an object.

We select an object, or in this case, 5 key museum objects, and see what happens when various artistic collaborators are inspired by them. The objects act like a sort of glue allowing the collaborators to extend their explorations in an inclusive and experimental way, but always connected. The dancer reveals one thing, the puppet maker something else, the composer an additional element and research with children another layer. Each influences the other and no one form or person leads the way. It is inclusive, democratic and always new. What is born out of truly listening to an object is a whole new contemporary visualization which a diverse audience of many ages and cultural experiences can relate to.

How do you see this show fitting into Theatre-Rites' 30th anniversary celebrations?

As our name suggests, we create theatrical rituals that celebrate connectivity between children and adults, community and individuality, and humans and nature. We feel a responsibility in the current climate to emphasize the importance of creativity in our lives. We have always fought for children's right to experience art of the highest quality, and it has not always been easy. Nothing gives me more hope than seeing a child respond to our work, knowing it has taken months of creativity from some of the best practicing artists around. Making and experiencing art nurtures all that is beneficial to us: it is not a luxury, but something children know they need and adults need reminding of. Return to the Forest is a perfect example of Theatre-Rites' practice, it marks the importance of knowing one's roots, nurturing potential growth and sustaining connections. It's a wonderful wav to celebrate our 30th.

In your view, what is the role of experimental theatre in shaping young audiences' appreciation for art?

As an Artist whose practice is constantly evolving, I find it essential to be ambitious and challenge myself. I also have the pleasure of collaborating with incredible artists who are equally ambitious and want to seek new and experimental ways of seeing and exploring the world.

I believe children, as much as adults, deserve to be exposed to a wide range of artistic inspiration. I am disappointed when the assumption is made that they will only enjoy adaptations of existing TV programmes or books. Of course they might, but they might also like to see what artists are discovering in the 'now'.

Theatre-Rites was established 30 years ago to ensure that younger audiences can experience art which can be assessed alongside the latest trends in creative thinking. Children, of all the members of our society, are the worthiest of seeing how new visions can thrive and help inspire a sustainable future.

How do themes of curiosity, transformation, and connection manifest in both the puppetry and movement?

Curiosity, transformation and connection are some of the most important parts we need to nurture about being a human amidst the complex world we live in. Puppetry and dance evoke these in abundance due to the lack of words and the essential element of the audience projecting their own experiences and emotions in order to complete the artistic encounter.

Watching a puppet or a body transform from one thing to another, either abruptly or evolutionary, is not only entertaining and thrilling but also inspiration for the soul. We are reminded of our own abilities to change, adapt and evolve in a fast, ever-changing world. In In t this show a surveillance camera evolves, literally unravelling its inner wiring to find a wilder self, re- wiring and re-wilding itself for a different future. A future which takes it back closer to nature. Another example through movement is how we explore the body becoming less human and more organic as our show leads everyone into the magical world of the mycelium in the forest.

One final question: why this show, and why now?

For me personally, I wanted to return to why we called the company Theatre-Rites 30 years ago and what the notion of Ritual can now mean. I wanted to connect more deeply with the artistic conversations happening between female visual artists and craftspeople around the world and the increasing space being given to their voices and what they can bring to the table in light of climate issues and human connectivity.

I also wanted the work of Theatre-Rites to delve deeper into the relationship between dance and puppetry and how that can lead to the 'poetics of puppetry' rather than literal representations.

We all wanted to collaborate with Gregory again and we have gathered an extraordinary group of collaborators. We know that this creative playground is so enriching. We are also delighted when that enrichment can reach the voung members of our audience and make them feel worthy of it and therefore enable them to recognize their own creative self-worth.

We want Theatre-Rites to create a production which isn't restricted to being an adaptation of an existing book or children's tv character. This is what Theatre-Rites is committed to, but I am very aware of an increasing risk- averse behaviour from within the industry and from attenders to anything which is not already tried and tested and offering a guaranteed, recognizable experience. I stand by my belief that existing success models are good for comm commercial art but the next success in the arts in general is always hidden from view and we have to notice it emerging and quide others to notice it too.

I want to offer children and those who care for them, quality art experiences which explore complex subjects, reveal enthralling current artistic discoveries and and offer a moment to be together and share how it feels to be alive today.

I want to say a huge thank you to Sue for taking the time to talk to me and Return To The Forest takes place from the 28 – 30 May at Sadler’s Wells East. Please see the link for details: https://www.sadlerswells.com/your-visit/sadlers-wells-east/welcome-to-sadlers-wells-east/